Interview with Jeff Zimbalist, Director of The Two Escobars

All photos courtesy of Jeff Zimbalist

Mitch Anderson talks with Jeff Zimbalist, director of the brand brand new documentary, The Two Escobars, about soccer, drugs, violence, as great as the difficult relationship.

Mitch Anderson: Im starting to begin with the fable of Pablo Escobar. From the movie we get the distinctness which he was the kind of immorality saint, responsible for so most genocide as great as corruption, though during the same time seen as the savior of the poor. Who was Pablo Escobar?

Jeff Zimbalist: He was both of those things. He was the devil as great as an angel. My hermit as great as we felt which since we didnt live in Colombia during the era of the PEPEs as great as Pablo Escobar, it was not the place to make the visualisation call.

We longed for give equal voice to both frigid points of view: Either we were the member of the race of Colombiawho was since the home as great as preparation as great as illness care as great as soccer fields by Pablo, as great as we see him as the Robin Hood (and he went to bat against the Colombian elite, the Rosca oligarchy, for the working class bad perplexing to shift decades of hardship as great as injustice), or we mislaid family members to pointless acts of violence, contend the automobile bomb, which Pablo was responsible for. Pablo forsaken the proverbial explosve upon Colombia which divided the nation in to two conflicting camps.

Long after the make up of the doc was in place, after we already had the account together, we still were concentration grouping as great as removing feedback upon the unequivocally polarized views of him. We were still working to make sure which the balance was there journalistically in the film. Personally, we consider there was an inner conflict which Pablo struggled with his total life. He didnt wish to be the killer, though he couldnt s! top hims elf; he had to protect his honour as great as he used aroused equates to to do so, which in conclusion damaged all he fought for in the name of the working class poor.

Anderson: So we have the devil as great as the angel wrapped up in the single male Pablo Escobar. But the alternative male lead in the movie is the drastic soccer player, the usual dignified soul, the goal of Colombia as great as the casualty of Colombia Andres Escobar. Who was Andres Escobar, as great as what does he represent?

Zimbalist: Andrs was nicknamed The Gentleman of the Field, El Caballero de la Cancha. He was the summary of the moral, law-abiding, group captain purpose indication who longed for to make make make use of of of competition as the car to redefine the countrys tarnished picture upon seductiveness of all the trusting victims of Pablos war he was the poster kid of the Colombian governments PR campaign to emanate the brand brand new national identity.

But the irony was which in sequence for soccer to attain as great as Andrs to renovate Colombias image, he had to spin the blind eye to the fact which soccer indispensable narco income during which time as great as which Pablo Escobar, the unequivocally same chairman who was ruining the countrys image, was additionally the tip weapon during the back of Colombian soccers unprecedented rapid rise out of shade to become the single of the most appropriate in the world.

Andrs wouldve preferred for soccer to be pure, he wouldve preferred never to visit Pablo Escobar or do commercial operation with Pablo, though he played upon Pablos group as great as when the Don, the Capo, the King of the Underworld invites we to dinner, we dont have the choice we uncover up.

Anderson: Tell me about violence. Both Favela Rising [Zimbalist's previous documentary] as great as The Two Escobars have been linked by the certain treatment of [violence]. Im extraordinary about your thoughts, your experiences. Wha! t moves we to discuss it the story of violence?

Im encouraged to make drive-in theatre which discuss it certain stories which plea usual perceptions about areas of the world, typically building areas of the world, which have been roughly regularly portrayed by mainstream media as descending detached roughly regularly portrayed negatively.

Zimbalist: Im encouraged to make drive-in theatre which discuss it certain stories which plea usual perceptions about areas of the world, typically building areas of the world, which have been roughly regularly portrayed by mainstream media as descending detached roughly regularly portrayed negatively.

In the small cases, similar to Favela Rising, which equates to revelation the unequivocally prescriptive story in the place which is seen as the mislaid cause, the hotbed of assault as great as crime in the favelas of Rio. And which says, This is the answer, as great as this is an inside out indication of cultural as great as mercantile development which is applicable around the world.

In alternative cases, similar to The Two Escobars, this goal manifests in creation sure which were revelation the story about three dimensional characters, embracing the full complexity of the context, the chronological moment, where most usual portrayals have been cliches about the romantic rise to power as great as monstrous downfall of the scarface type druglord.

As eccentric filmmakers we consider we have the shortcoming to plea usual perceptions as great as preconceptions, to go deeper as great as some-more intimate with the review as great as representations.

In conditions of risk as great as working in an area which is unequivocally violent, there was the sheer difference in in in between the favelas of Brazil as great as the believe vital in Colombia. In the favelas, we know literally what youre perplexing to avoid: bullets. And the kids in the face masks who have been sharpened those bullets, the risk they paint is solely in the earthy wh! ich they have guns. They have been not aged enough, grown up enough, smart sufficient to come up with the small plot which we need to worry about. They have been not monitoring who we are. You can only take retreat when they begin shooting, as great as we will be okay. So even though there was transparent as great as benefaction earthy risk the complete time we was there, we was never as great frightened by it.

In Colombia it was the exact opposite. we never once saw the gun during the complete prolongation of this film, though we was afraid most of the time. The fright was in my imagination. You listened rumors of sabotaging, kidnapping as great as plots which would occur to journalists all over the place. And we were traffic with unequivocally supportive issues starting in to maximum confidence prisons, past wounds as great as trauma, conglomeration wars. And so whilst there was no transparent as great as benefaction violence, my aptitude done me feel similar to we was in some-more risk in Colombia than in the favelas of Brazil.

And we consider thats kind of true in the fright genre as great as horror genres. Take the difference in in in between Edgar Allen Poe as great as Stephen King. Stephen King is full of explicit gore, which is not which scary in the end. But Edgar Allen Poe, during the finish of the story, there is the male locked in the closet with the torch, as great as your aptitude creates the picture of the male burning, as great as it haunts we for the rest of your life.

Anderson: The movie is of course additionally about soccer. Throughout, we was struck by the brand brand new discernment in to the inlet of the sport. For Colombians, soccer was the kind of retreat from violence, the refuge from reality in the way. But in the end,it couldnt escape the cruelty of it all. The competition became both the slave as great as the master of the drug lords, it seemed. Was soccer the genuine retreat from violence? A damaged dream? What do we think?

Zimba! list: Soccer is an prolongation of multitude as great as multitude is an prolongation of sport. If we look during competition in the specific time as great as place in history, we will see all taking place in multitude reflected by the sport.

In this box theres the line in the movie where Coach Maturana says, Narcotrafficking is an octopus; it touches everything. Is soccer an island? NO! There were people upon the group similar to Andres Escobar, who felt which soccer shouldnt be upheld by drug money, as great as who felt which the victory was vale if it was won with the await of dirty income as great as strong arm tactics.

There was additionally the great need during the time for something to hold in, for somewhere to put their hopes. But there was no time to recreate the soccer institution upon the legitimate foundation, authorised money. So the by-pass was to make make make use of of of the await of narcotrafficking to lift the competition up as great as in we do so, lift the nation up, as great as ironically, renovate the countrys picture to something some-more positive.

As we know from all the devil narratives, what seems as great great to be true, mostly is. You cant escape the equates to which we make make make use of of of to get to an end. In this case, in conclusion the soccer institution as great as all which it pronounced about the peace-loving industrious Colombia ready to impress upon the universe the brand brand new picture of the nation this total enterprise was built upon the inadequate foundation, illicit narco money, as great as was unfailing to collapse.

There were so most gamblers, drug traffickers as great as aroused factions which were demanding which red blood be spilt for the detriment of the World Cup which someone had to scapegoat himself, to in conclusion be the sacrificial lamb. Shed which blood. And Andres Escobar gimlet which b! urden. H e stepped up to the dark component to urge his people, all trusting Colombians who were victimized by assault as great as he did which so which the competition in the nation could pierce forward, could begin to heal, as great as it has.

Colombia has come the prolonged approach in lowering assault as great as crime rates since the 80s as great as early 90s as great as it was important to us not only to magnify the disastrous stereotype of the nation being the hotbed of assault as great as lawless barbarians, though rsther than to express by the film, as great as especially its ending, the apply oneself as great as adore my hermit as great as we have gained vital as great as working with Colombians the nation still has the ways to go, though its additionally come the unequivocally prolonged way.

Anderson: On which note, we wish to speak the bit about the World Cup. That climactic impulse where the United States plays Colombia upon US soil in 1994 was filled with this implausible paradox, the kind of disconnect. For the US, it was the kind of privileged diversion it seemed, as great as for the Colombians it meant hold up or death. What have been your thoughts?

Zimbalist: Im starting to take which somewhere the small different. Someone pronounced to me currently which there have been three moments where for amiability time stops. One: when the chief weapon is forsaken from the plane. Two: when the boss of the European or US nation is murdered. Three: during the game. And they meant The World Cup.

And its true. The stories have been abundant. Time stops. And there is no homogeneous in any competition which is geared towards the US audience.

I goal which by creation soccer accessible as great as translating which passion in the approach which the US assembly can brand with, we will begin to assimilate this denunciation of soccer which is used all over the world.

Sport in the US some-more mostly takes the purpose of diversion or entertainment, whe! re in mo st places around the universe it becomes the unifying car or the divisive car for an complete people. we goal which by creation soccer accessible as great as translating which passion in the approach which the US assembly can brand with, we will begin to assimilate this denunciation of soccer which is used all over the world. And afterwards to begin to share believe about it, so we can improved assimilate as great as connect with the cultural as great as class counterparts around the world. we consider its the genuine apparatus for us to strech out to people over borders.

I mean, literally, the US group was the ragtag group uninformed out of college who had no pressure starting in to the 94 cup. In personification with no pressure, they were means to be the bit some-more focused as great as disciplined. [T]he Colombian group was an impressionable young group as well, though they had the weight of carrying their nation out of decades of civil war, of bloody narco-war. They had genocide threats before the diversion as great as they had family members killed.

Ultimately, any diversion is the mental game, any diversion is the psychological game. So when the single group is which untroubled as great as the alternative is carrying those kinds of burdens as great as mental demons, we consider regardless of the talent involved, the diversion becomes lopsided as great as the result predictable.

Anderson: The movie doesnt go as great deeply or categorically in to any geopolitical analysis, especially regarding the USs purpose in the nightmarish assault which gripped Colombia in the 80s as great as 90s. Nor does it seem to make any judgments about the distressing war occurring in in in between the cartels as great as the Colombian government. Why is that?

Zimbalist: we consider its tantalizing to embody as great as emanate conclusions about these large chronological events as great as outmost governmental moments, though the great account needs to pull th! e assemb ly in as great as unequivocally plea perceptions as great as prejudices.

Even though this is the story where sport, governing body as great as crime have been all intertwined, the movie is not an research of shortcoming for decades of violence. Whereas the motives as great as seductiveness groups concerned in this national story have been unequivocally complex, we indispensable to know what the story was as great as hang to it with fortify as great as clarity. Its from this distinctness which genuine account tragedy is born, as great as space is opened up for the spectator to rivet with the experience, the emotions some-more personally, some-more profoundly.

We longed for the assembly to take the ride upon the account where they could rivet upon the personal level, as great as begin to assimilate the inner journeys of these characters. We longed for to get over the countless outmost political differences as great as in to their universal romantic reactions, which is where we consider shift is born.

You know, we dont wish to alienate viewers by personification to or against their preconceived opinions, as great as so by rooting them in the decisions of the moment, rsther than than the governing body of the time, we can entrance the most wider audience, the some-more different audience, as great as have them all join in the usual experience. Thats during the heart of it. If we wish to investigate political responsibility, books can do that. Wikipedia can do that.

Anderson: The Two Escobars was initially meant to be partial of the radio array for ESPN, though we somehow incited it in to the underline length piece. How did we go about credible ESPN to give we the space for that? And how did we hover the tensions in in in between radio as great as cinema?

Zimbalist: It is such an blow up process.

First, it wasnt me whi! ch convi nced ESPN, though rsther than the content which convinced them. Here was the story which hadnt ever been told in this way.

We went down to Colombia as great as looked in to the events of the deadly night where Andres Escobar was murdered. And in conclusion we decided which it wasnt about the egghead author of the crime or who pulled the trigger. But rsther than it was the complete multitude which was responsible for Andress murder. His sacrifice.

In sequence to assimilate his murder, we had to assimilate this unequivocally secretive phenomenon known upon the streets as narco futbol or narco soccer. And in sequence to assimilate narco futbol, we had to assimilate the context of narco multitude as great as narco culture, as great as which meant understanding Pablo Escobar. And whilst ESPN is the sports network, they were eager to discuss it stories about the impacts of sports upon society, as great as also, in their words, redefine the sports documentary.

And as we proposed removing entrance to extraordinary characters, distant some-more entrance than we ever expected, as great as additionally to repository which we never knew existed, repository which had never been shown in any alternative format, by the private repository of the families of Andres as great as Pablo, though additionally from the police department in Medellin as great as additionally by networks as great as broadcasters which had sealed their doors most years ago, we realized which we could discuss it the story of sports as great as society, the story of Pablo as great as Andres, in the same film.

And so we took the gamble.

Instead of creation the 50 notation movie per the assignment, we done the 100 notation film. And we brought the severe cut to ESPN, satirical the nails as great as land the breath, hoping they would get during the back of this foreign denunciation 100 notation underline length movie as great as they did.

They loved it. And now they have been ancillary the melodramatic release o! f the fi lm. And they upheld us in movie festivals. We got accepted to Cannes, Tribeca as great as the Los Angeles Film Festival. So in the end, we consider it was the content as great as the judgment which was the most persuasive component here.

Anderson: On the indicate of archival footage, man, its only spectacular. The attempted attempted murder scenes, the heroin round-ups, the aerial shots of aged villages as great as fincas, the hysteria of soccer stadiums, the implausible goals, the footwork of the Colombians upon the soccer pitch. How did we get entrance to all of the archives? And speak to me the bit as great about FIFAs archival footage if we can.

Zimbalist: Well, with repository similar to we said, we begin with the tour which afterwards branches out, only similar to any adventure in life. You begin with the indicate of hit or the resource, as great as we take what which chairman says, the direction which which chairman leads you, as great as we follow it. Soon, we have been low within the trees of the forest. A million different people we know, the million different places we can go. And with repository its the same thing.

Theres all of these broadcasters who, during La Violencia by the times of Pablo Escobar as great as the PEPES the total chronological era they were sharpened video the complete time. Many of those tapes were unlabeled in these sealed vaults which hadnt been unlocked in most years. And by persistence, we were since access.

We would go in to these vaults, as great as they would discuss it us: this side of the room is competition as great as this side is politics. And we would spend the time, personally as great as with helpers, starting by fasten after tape, as great as seeking for the gems. we consider it is which time investment which eccentric movie as great as eccentric prolongation can means which is what allows us to explore issues with some-more depth as great as to investigate angles with may be some-more correct! ness tha n your average every day everyday turn-around news show.

So all of which was the tour of removing the repository in Colombia. Getting FIFA footage was some-more of the corporate red fasten process. Ultimately, it was unequivocally costly as great as prohibitive. But FIFA loves the film; theyve gotten during the back of it. Luckily with ESPN during the back of us, as well, we were means to means the footage we indispensable to embody the own goal as great as the fateful diversion during the climax of the film.

Anderson: Lastly, may be the strange question, though the movie gripped me in this anxious way, roughly similar to cocaine. My palms were sweaty. My heart kick fast. we was vehement as great as depressed throughout. As the filmmaker, only wondering if we have any discernment any thoughts upon the symbolism of that?

Zimbalist: [Laughter] Thats awesome. we havent listened which before. No man, thats your poetry. we adore it.

I consider the style of directing is to unequivocally advertently as great as intentionally guide the viewers romantic believe by various stages of the narrative, where for 10 minutes during the time we consider we adore Pablo Escobar. And afterwards the next 10 minutes we absolutely despise Pablo. That rollercoaster of contradictory emotions is in conclusion the most appropriate representation we can give of life. Compressing most years of story in to 100 minutes of sitting in the movie theater.

You know the wider the range of practice as great as emotions the spectator goes through, the some-more accurate it makes their identification with what it would have been similar to to live by which time.

I consider which its the great pointer which we had all of those things happening, as great as which it was means to trigger physiological reactions, though we never suspicion of it in condition! s of the parallel to the heroin experience. we similar to it. we similar to it the lot.

Community Connection:

Want to see The Two Escobars? If youre in San Francisco, the movie is display during the Sundance Kabuki Theater, August 27-September 2, 2010. Buy tickets here.